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 Book 1 - Book of Rights

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Lance
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PostSubject: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 14th 2010, 23:16

Quote :
Book 1 - Book of Rights

I) All Citizens of Galloway are entitled to the following rights:
i) Right to free speech
ii) Right to worship freely in their chosen religion
iii) Right to bear arms
iv) Right to defend their town, capitol, county, or country
v) Right to appeal the actions of their mayor to the County Council
vi) Right to petition to the government
vii) Right to assemble lawfully
viii) All citizens of the County have freedom from unrepresented taxation
ix) All citizens of the County accused of a crime have the right to a fair and free trial, represented by counsel. Citizens also have the right to an appeal to the High Court of the Kingdom of Scotland
x) All citizens of the County have the right to associate with any order, guild, corporation or other groups of political, cultural, or economic nature as long as their association to such group respects the laws
xi) All citizens of the County have the right to trade on the markets, while abiding by the laws


II) Citizens of Galloway who have attained level 1 are hereby granted additional rights as follows:
Right to run for County Council or Mayor of their town.
i) Right to vote for the selection of the County Council and Mayor of their town
ii) Right to join or create a political list to run in an election
iii) Right to travel freely about Galloway and Scotland


III) Lords and Ladies of Galloway, as befitting their esteemed positions in the County, are also hereby granted:
i)An additional vote to cast for each election they participate in.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 15th 2010, 01:22

Quote :
I) All Citizens of Galloway are entitled to the following rights:
i) Right to free speech
ii) Right to worship freely in their chosen religion
iii) Right to bear arms
iv) Right to defend their town, capitol, county, or country
v) Right to appeal the actions of their mayor to the Burgh Commissioner.
vi) Right to petition to the government
vii) Right to assemble lawfully
viii) All citizens of the County have freedom from unrepresented taxation
ix) All citizens of the County accused of a crime have the right to a fair and free trial, represented by counsel. Citizens also have the right to an appeal to The King.
x) All citizens of the County have the right to associate with any order, guild, corporation or other groups of political, cultural, or economic nature as long as their association to such group respects the laws
xi) All citizens of the County have the right to trade on the markets, while abiding by the laws

iv) - I eliminated this for one reason. In the event we want to think about removing Mayor via an army, we'll need to make sure that Citizens aren't entitled to fight against the county army.

v) - It originally read "County Council" instead of "Burgh Commissioner". I think that even something small, like this will help increase the Duke's actual power. He/She is elected as the highest official in the land and shouldn't have to consult CC over every decision they make.

ix) - Changed this from the "High Court" to "The King" . . . there is no reason for Galloway to have an appeals court. If someone doesn't like the outcome of a case, let them mail the admins about it.

x) - Not to say they can't do it but, there might be times when we have to outlaw organizations. If you're really looking to extend control, you probably aren't going to want to prevent people from joining certain organizations, regardless of whether they are legal or not.

xi) - Removed this because I'm going to address the market in a different sections of the laws.


Last edited by Lance on September 15th 2010, 01:32; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 15th 2010, 01:23

This entire sections should be struck . . .

Quote :
II) Citizens of Galloway who have attained level 1 are hereby granted additional rights as follows:
Right to run for County Council or Mayor of their town.
i) Right to vote for the selection of the County Council and Mayor of their town
ii) Right to join or create a political list to run in an election
iii) Right to travel freely about Galloway and Scotland
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Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 15th 2010, 01:23

Also should be struck . . .

Quote :
III) Lords and Ladies of Galloway, as befitting their esteemed positions in the County, are also hereby granted:
i)An additional vote to cast for each election they participate in.
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Fitz Dunbar

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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 15th 2010, 10:57

Quote :
ix) - Changed this from the "High Court" to "The King" . . . there is no reason for Galloway to have an appeals court. If someone doesn't like the outcome of a case, let them mail the admins about it.

Don't forget to check in with the admins about whether or not an appeals court is required.

Quote :
x) - Not to say they can't do it but, there might be times when we have to outlaw organizations. If you're really looking to extend control, you probably aren't going to want to prevent people from joining certain organizations, regardless of whether they are legal or not.

The bit in red seems conflicting. Please elaborate if it is correct. Or if it is a mistake, fix it, obviously.
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Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 15th 2010, 11:01

Yeah I worded that wrong . . . meant to say "you probably are going to want"
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Alistair243



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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 20th 2010, 17:00

Yarp (going to be saying this if its all good Razz)

Edit: That is a gay : P
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Sullihan



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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 20th 2010, 22:58

Lance wrote:
Quote :
Book 1 - Book of Rights

I) All Citizens of Galloway are entitled to the following rights:
i) Right to free speech
ii) Right to worship freely in their chosen religion
iii) Right to bear arms
iv) Right to defend their town, capitol, county, or country
v) Right to appeal the actions of their mayor to the County Council
vi) Right to petition to the government
vii) Right to assemble lawfully
viii) All citizens of the County have freedom from unrepresented taxation
ix) All citizens of the County accused of a crime have the right to a fair and free trial, represented by counsel. Citizens also have the right to an appeal to the High Court of the Kingdom of Scotland
x) All citizens of the County have the right to associate with any order, guild, corporation or other groups of political, cultural, or economic nature as long as their association to such group respects the laws
xi) All citizens of the County have the right to trade on the markets, while abiding by the laws


II) Citizens of Galloway who have attained level 1 are hereby granted additional rights as follows:
Right to run for County Council or Mayor of their town.
i) Right to vote for the selection of the County Council and Mayor of their town
ii) Right to join or create a political list to run in an election
iii) Right to travel freely about Galloway and Scotland


III) Lords and Ladies of Galloway, as befitting their esteemed positions in the County, are also hereby granted:
i)An additional vote to cast for each election they participate in.

I'd say eliminate "viii) All citizens of the County have freedom from unrepresented taxation". By being a citizen of Galloway they are automatically represented by their mayors and county councils.
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Alistair243



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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 21st 2010, 06:44

Yeah that too
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Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 27th 2010, 17:30

As of right now this is what we have cut book 1 down too. I think this is good, obviously not everyone has commented but we can work off this version.

Quote :
Book 1 - Book of Rights

All Citizens of Galloway are entitled to the following rights:
i) Right to free speech
ii) Right to worship freely in their chosen religion
iii) Right to bear arms
iv) Right to appeal the actions of their mayor to the Count.
v) Right to petition to the government
vi) Right to assemble lawfully
vii) All citizens of the County accused of a crime have the right to a fair and free trial, represented by counsel. Citizens also have the right to an appeal to The King
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Jethro

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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 30th 2010, 02:56

Oh boy. You are not going to want me to comment on this. I disagree with a lot of stuff that you have dismissed Shocked

I am tired right now, I will have another look later and decide if I am going to get involved.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   September 30th 2010, 03:31

Aye I know Jethro Razz. That's why I wanted others input, lol. This is just the ideas of the few that have commented. Need sane people to temper all this Very Happy.

Don't let some of the radical ideas turn you off to CC. I just wanted to start at one extreme with everything, since the same old wasn't working. In the end though, I want our platform to reflect what all 12 of us want, not just me. So please do give your input and lets see if we can get economic ideas and law revisions that everyone is comfortable with and can agree on. Obviously I wouldn't push to implement anything unless I knew I had the full backing of the fellow members of this list. We can't provide a unified front in public if we aren't all on the same page, so like I said please do give input. I think we all want what is best for the county above all else.
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Jethro

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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 1st 2010, 00:23

Quote :
Book 1 - Book of Rights

I) All Citizens of Galloway are entitled to the following rights:
i) Right to free speech
ii) Right to worship freely in their chosen religion
iii) Right to bear arms
iv) Right to defend their Town, Capital, County, or Country << changed capitol to the English spelling (more period correct and raises my hackles less Wink)
v) Right to appeal the actions of their mayor to the County Council << By this I don’t infer a granting of rights to the Duke but to the council as a whole. Maybe their can be a chain of complaint? 1. Complain to mayor, 2. If no response, complain to the mayors council (something that would be great to have) 3. Take it to the council 4. Admins intervene and we all crash and burn - DIE, DIE, DIE … lol
vi) Right to petition to the government << now the county Council right?
vii) Right to assemble lawfully << dumbass question: are there any guidelines that define what constitutes a lawful as opposed to an unlawful gathering?
viii) All citizens of the County have freedom from unrepresented taxation << agree that this should be removed. Game mechanics make it such that if a town falls to a rebel, they can tax as long as a) taxes have not already been levied and 2) the town has finance points. All we can do is make it illegal to tax if not elected to office or granted the office via sanctioned revolt. It can’t stop the event, but it can be added to a bill of indictment.
ix) All citizens of the County accused of a crime have the right to a fair and free trial, represented by counsel. Citizens also have the right to an appeal to the High Court of the Kingdom of Scotland << The only high court we have is the King so the wording should be changed to represent that. Also, counsel is not possible IG so clearly it is not a “right”. We can add the option of a public (RP) trial and then counsel can be heard. In a RPG, we need more RP opportunities to be made available
x) All citizens of the County have the right to associate with any order, guild, corporation or other groups of political, cultural, or economic nature as long as their association to such group respects the laws of Galloway and judicial partners << added a bit to the end of this. Do we care if they break laws in other counties? Unless we have a judicial treaty, then really, no. So if we have members of a certain group in Galloway, their membership of the group is irrelevant as long as they agree to adhere to our laws.
xi) All citizens of the County have the right to trade on the markets, while abiding by the laws << grr rawr at market laws Very Happy


II) Citizens of Galloway who have attained peasant farmer status (level 1) are hereby granted additional rights as follows: << trying to keep out OOC terms so have made it look more RP like, after all what does jeth know about “levels”? All he knows is he went from living in a shack (which leaked btw) to owning a field to building a workshop etc Maybe if we try to lead the way in role play we can help to rule out some of the nasty OOC’ness
Right to run for County Council or Mayor of their town.
i) Right to vote for the selection of the County Council and Mayor of their town << can level o’s not vote - I never knew that
ii) Right to join or create a political list to run in an election
iii) Right to travel freely about Galloway and Scotland
<< otherwise I like this. It is an RP way to show players how they benefit as they progress. These rights are granted automatically IG so we need to keep them in our Corpus. Also, we need to kinda add in additional rights for the other levels, like right to freely practice their professions (level 2) right to study and teach (level 3) right to build a mansion in the capital and live a life of luxury and ease (level 4)

III) Lords and Ladies of Galloway, as befitting their esteemed positions in the County, are also hereby granted:
i)An additional vote to cast for each election they participate in.

I told you that you would rather me stay out of it mwahahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 1st 2010, 11:25

Quote :
Don't forget to check in with the admins about whether or not an appeals court is required.

I was pretty certain that a repeals court was required.

If not, why would we want to sluff it off onto the admins? We should have something in place no matter. Also depending upon the crime and charges, we should also have the choice of having a jury over a closed court. Felonies should always have that choice. (Just looking at it from the other side of the coin...


What is to say that both the Judge and the PP are not in cahoots to get someone on bogus charges? We should have some sort of venue or.. 'guidelines' for steps to take if we feel we need it rather than having what we did in the GI where there was all kinds of petitions on how certain people think certain ones are biased... and the accused can not get a fair case..)

But then again, maybe I am thinking too much on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 1st 2010, 13:00

Quote :
What is to say that both the Judge and the PP are not in cahoots to get someone on bogus charges?

Sullihan and Coast . . . in cahoots to charge people? Never Laughing

When I have some more free time I'll actually add something constructive to all this Razz.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 1st 2010, 23:50

Ceana wrote:
Quote :
Don't forget to check in with the admins about whether or not an appeals court is required.

I was pretty certain that a repeals court was required.

If not, why would we want to sluff it off onto the admins? We should have something in place no matter. Also depending upon the crime and charges, we should also have the choice of having a jury over a closed court. Felonies should always have that choice. (Just looking at it from the other side of the coin...


What is to say that both the Judge and the PP are not in cahoots to get someone on bogus charges? We should have some sort of venue or.. 'guidelines' for steps to take if we feel we need it rather than having what we did in the GI where there was all kinds of petitions on how certain people think certain ones are biased... and the accused can not get a fair case..)

But then again, maybe I am thinking too much on this.

Appeals courts are strictly RP and have no influence IG. As such, they are not required by the Admins as no RP is considered to be a requirement of the game. The admins will not support any reimbursements granted by any appeals court, and they only intervene if the sentence is unduly harsh. They are on record as reversing fines and even removing judges from power. As to the rest of it, no, an appeals court is not required and therefore is not a "right" in the strictest sense. We can choose to provide an appellate court and add that to the corpus, but it is not necessary. (Remember this is 1458 and the court system was pretty much "you have the right to trial as long as the court's decision favours the king and his nobles ..." lol)

Also, if you suspect a collusion, then you have options. You can run against them in a list, try to overthrow them or use an army. LJS would say to claims of bias - you should choose better next time.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 2nd 2010, 06:18

Jethro wrote:
LJS would say to claims of bias - you should choose better next time.
That's what I like about LJS, he's very blunt - no nonsense, you just get a straightforward, sometimes rude, concise answer.

Oh hey this isn't my forum...
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PostSubject: Re: Book 1 - Book of Rights   October 3rd 2010, 00:03

Jethro wrote:
Ceana wrote:
Quote :
Don't forget to check in with the admins about whether or not an appeals court is required.

I was pretty certain that a repeals court was required.

If not, why would we want to sluff it off onto the admins? We should have something in place no matter. Also depending upon the crime and charges, we should also have the choice of having a jury over a closed court. Felonies should always have that choice. (Just looking at it from the other side of the coin...


What is to say that both the Judge and the PP are not in cahoots to get someone on bogus charges? We should have some sort of venue or.. 'guidelines' for steps to take if we feel we need it rather than having what we did in the GI where there was all kinds of petitions on how certain people think certain ones are biased... and the accused can not get a fair case..)

But then again, maybe I am thinking too much on this.

Appeals courts are strictly RP and have no influence IG. As such, they are not required by the Admins as no RP is considered to be a requirement of the game. The admins will not support any reimbursements granted by any appeals court, and they only intervene if the sentence is unduly harsh. They are on record as reversing fines and even removing judges from power. As to the rest of it, no, an appeals court is not required and therefore is not a "right" in the strictest sense. We can choose to provide an appellate court and add that to the corpus, but it is not necessary. (Remember this is 1458 and the court system was pretty much "you have the right to trial as long as the court's decision favours the king and his nobles ..." lol)

Also, if you suspect a collusion, then you have options. You can run against them in a list, try to overthrow them or use an army. LJS would say to claims of bias - you should choose better next time.

I agree with what Jethro said. I want to eliminate things that are purely RP and can't really be enforced IG. If you think the PP and Judge didn't give you a fair sentence, appeal to LJS. That's more historically correct anyway and really more streamlined then an appeals court that doesn't have any power.

For instance, use this scenario. The PP and Judge wrongfully accuse someone of a crime. Then that person goes to an RP appeals court and the appeals court finds them innocent . . . so what? They tell the PP & Judge to thrown out charges, but if the PP & Judge found them guilty in the first place, I don't think they're really going to listen to the powerless RP court. So you're going to have to appeal to the Admins anyway, because they can go in and forcefully drop the case.

Just seems easier to completely bypass the RP appeals court then.
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