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 Book 2 - Common Laws

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Lance
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PostSubject: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 14th 2010, 23:17

Quote :
Book 2 - Common laws

I. The Principal
i) Any law or decree proclaimed by the King of Scotland applies to the County of Galloway
ii)Laws created by the County of Galloway must not violate the Constitution of Scotland
iii) The laws are not retroactive
iv) Any enacted law or decree will come into effect the next day (meaning the reset following) after they are published, unless the Council should decide a different day for a law or decree to take effect
v) No one person, regardless of their position or power in the County, is exempt from any of these laws except where specifically stated


II. Duties of the People
i) All citizens of the County have the obligation to know the laws and to conform to them
ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
iii) No one can attack the reputation of a citizen of the County by making false accusation, else charges of slander be pressed against them.
iv) A citizen has a duty to bring a criminal act to the eyes of the Public Prosecutor and the Council.
v) Noble titles and official positions are protected by law in the Lyon Court. To use a title or a position without authorization is a crime. Titles and official positions must be recognized by the Kingdom or recognized by the County
vi) Lordship (IG title bought with tokens), does not count as a noble title, or an official position.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 15th 2010, 01:36

Quote :
I. The Principal
i) Any law or decree proclaimed by the King of Scotland applies to the County of Galloway
ii)Laws created by the County of Galloway must not violate the Constitution of Scotland
iii) The laws are not retroactive
iv) Any enacted law or decree will come into effect the next day (meaning the reset following) after they are published, unless the Council should decide a different day for a law or decree to take effect
v) No one person, regardless of their position or power in the County, is exempt from any of these laws except where specifically stated

ii) - Does not apply anymore

iv) - Think laws should go into effect as soon as a vote closes and they are posted in the Galloway Inn. Speed of actions is very important and we shouldn't have to wait till "next reset" to get to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 15th 2010, 01:53

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II. Duties of the People
i) All citizens of the County have the obligation to know the laws and to conform to them.
ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
c. Providing labor in the Drummore goldmine
iii) No one can attack the reputation of a citizen of the County by making false accusations without documented proof, else charges of slander be pressed against them.
iv) A citizen has a duty to bring a criminal act to the eyes of the Public Prosecutor and the Council.
v) Noble titles and official positions are protected by law in the Lyon Court. To use a title or a position without authorization is a crime. Titles and official positions must be recognized by the Kingdom or recognized by the County
vi) Lordship (IG title bought with tokens), does not count as a noble title, or an official position.


ii) c. - Added this so we have somewhere specific to point to when people don't get with the mine working program. Also, this section is easily amendable to add any kind of duty you want to thrust on the average lazy citizen.

iii) - Added "without documented proof". I personally want slander rigorously enforced. Too many lies getting spread around. Unless they have "proof" = Screenshot, then to hell with them, fine them and give some money to the county.

iv) - I don't think they have to and this is damn near impossible to know anyway. Some of our tactics might be borderline illegal anyway . . . don't need people being obligated to report it Razz.

v) - Struck because it's not important. Everyone who has a noble title is going to know to go to the Lyon Court with the issue not CC.

vi) - Struck for the same reason as above.
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Fitz Dunbar

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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 15th 2010, 11:19

Lance wrote:
Quote :
II. Duties of the People
i) All citizens of the County have the obligation to know the laws and to conform to them.
ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
c. Providing labor in the Drummore goldmine
iii) No one can attack the reputation of a citizen of the County by making false accusations without documented proof, else charges of slander be pressed against them.
iv) A citizen has a duty to bring a criminal act to the eyes of the Public Prosecutor and the Council.
v) Noble titles and official positions are protected by law in the Lyon Court. To use a title or a position without authorization is a crime. Titles and official positions must be recognized by the Kingdom or recognized by the County
vi) Lordship (IG title bought with tokens), does not count as a noble title, or an official position.


ii) c. - Added this so we have somewhere specific to point to when people don't get with the mine working program. Also, this section is easily amendable to add any kind of duty you want to thrust on the average lazy citizen.

While I like the concept, I don't see how this is enforceable. Is it worth while to have this here when we cannot do anything about it?

iii) - Added "without documented proof". I personally want slander rigorously enforced. Too many lies getting spread around. Unless they have "proof" = Screenshot, then to hell with them, fine them and give some money to the county.

While I agree with the concept of prosecuting people for making false allegations, I think this law is useless sitting here because, you will need to check with the admin, but I don't believe forum proof can be used for prosecuting people. And even if this were allowed nothing can be done because it is not in the Penal Code and it does not mention specifically whether this would be a felony or whatever.

iv) - I don't think they have to and this is damn near impossible to know anyway. Some of our tactics might be borderline illegal anyway . . . don't need people being obligated to report it Razz.

Agreed, remove it. Pointless weight/fat/words because even if someone was found to know of something, which is impossible because a) forum proof cannot be used IG and b) what are the chances, other than a tavern conversation....you could not do anything about it anyway because this is not in the penal code. Its just excess words sitting up here in Book 2.

v) - Struck because it's not important. Everyone who has a noble title is going to know to go to the Lyon Court with the issue not CC.

AFAIK Forum admins cannot do squat if someone is using a title not given to them by the Lyon Court. Therefore this law is stupid and pointless. It is nothing but excess weight/fat/words because it just sits there but has no meaning, because nothing can be done about it.

vi) - Struck for the same reason as above.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 15th 2010, 21:30

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ii) c. - Added this so we have somewhere specific to point to when people don't get with the mine working program. Also, this section is easily amendable to add any kind of duty you want to thrust on the average lazy citizen.

While I like the concept, I don't see how this is enforceable. Is it worth while to have this here when we cannot do anything about it?

I understand it's not entirely enforceable. It's just more of a tool for us to use . . . when people continue not to get in the goldmine, we point to this and say it's part of their duty. I don't plan on actually prosecuting it, but it's good to make it part of the duties of the citizens.

Quote :
iii) - Added "without documented proof". I personally want slander rigorously enforced. Too many lies getting spread around. Unless they have "proof" = Screenshot, then to hell with them, fine them and give some money to the county.

While I agree with the concept of prosecuting people for making false allegations, I think this law is useless sitting here because, you will need to check with the admin, but I don't believe forum proof can be used for prosecuting people. And even if this were allowed nothing can be done because it is not in the Penal Code and it does not mention specifically whether this would be a felony or whatever.
You're right on this, I'm going to strike it and move it to the Penal Code section[quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 20th 2010, 17:03

iv) - Think laws should go into effect as soon as a vote closes and they are posted in the Galloway Inn. Speed of actions is very important and we shouldn't have to wait till "next reset" to get to work.

Na just wait till the next day, everyone needs time to see the new law and it gives an easy time for the law to start rather than straight after the poll.

ii) c. - Added this so we have somewhere specific to point to when people don't get with the mine working program. Also, this section is easily amendable to add any kind of duty you want to thrust on the average lazy citizen.

Rather pointless, and since your cutting out all the stupid parts its stupid to put this in, saying its in the laws wont change anything.

iii) - Added "without documented proof". I personally want slander rigorously enforced. Too many lies getting spread around. Unless they have "proof" = Screenshot, then to hell with them, fine them and give some money to the county.

You doofuss it already says false accusations, if you had proof they wouldnt be false.

iv) - I don't think they have to and this is damn near impossible to know anyway. Some of our tactics might be borderline illegal anyway . . . don't need people being obligated to report it .

I say just leave it in, its not enforceable but they should tell us whos breaking our laws.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 25th 2010, 22:31

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iv) Any enacted law or decree will come into effect the next day (meaning the reset following) after they are published, unless the Council should decide a different day for a law or decree to take effect

I'm going to have to agree with Ali on this one. If ignorance of the law is not a defence then don't put the citizens in a position where they could break a law without genuinely being aware that is changed. People need time to see changes and it's an underhanded move to deny them the opportunity to be made aware first.



ii) c. - Added this so we have somewhere specific to point to when people don't get with the mine working program. Also, this section is easily amendable to add any kind of duty you want to thrust on the average lazy citizen.

While I agree that more people should work the mine I am against making it a law and forcing them. Is it even legal to do this?

"I don't plan on actually prosecuting it, but it's good to make it part of the duties of the citizens. "

If you don't plan on enforcing it don't add it, otherwise it's like a blackmail tool.

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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 26th 2010, 00:45

If people aren't going to work the mines when only asked something else needs to be done...increases in wage don't work, mine lotteries don't work, providing people with armed retinues to get back and forth don't work...I agree that a law requiring working in the mine isn't going to work, but not because I don't like it Laughing

I say push heavily for the penal colony, the judge must attempt to be in near constant contact with the people on trial. You'd be surprised how many people will perk up if you mail them that otherwise wouldn't even show up in court, offer them choices so they actually have input in their punishment, we aren't trying to drive people from the game here...worked for me when I was judge.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 26th 2010, 02:01

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ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
c. Providing labor in the Drummore goldmine

Well, on this it just states it's their "duty" . . . it's not a crime to not work in the Drummore goldmine, just like it's not a crime to refuse to serve in a Galloway Army. By this point everyone active in Galloway knows how important goldmine attendance is. They harm the county just as much by not putting time into the goldmine, just as much as they harm the county by not rallying for defense in times of war, in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 27th 2010, 17:40

I re-added the part about laws going into effect the next day. Right now this is the working copy of Book II.

Quote :
Book 2 - Common laws

I. The Principal
i) Any law or decree proclaimed by the King of Scotland applies to the County of Galloway
ii) The laws are not retroactive
iii) Any enacted law or decree will come into effect the next day (meaning the reset following) after they are published, unless the Council should decide a different day for a law or decree to take effect
iv) No one person, regardless of their position or power in the County, is exempt from any of these laws except where specifically stated


II. Duties of the People
i) All citizens of the County have the obligation to know the laws and to conform to them.
ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
c. Providing labor in the Drummore goldmine

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Hespera



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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 29th 2010, 22:55

Lance wrote:
Quote :
ii) All citizens of the County have the duty to help their community by
a. Paying taxes. Taxes and tax amounts will be reviewed by County Council every 90 days.
b. Serving in the county army if such a need arises.
c. Providing labor in the Drummore goldmine

Well, on this it just states it's their "duty" . . . it's not a crime to not work in the Drummore goldmine, just like it's not a crime to refuse to serve in a Galloway Army. By this point everyone active in Galloway knows how important goldmine attendance is. They harm the county just as much by not putting time into the goldmine, just as much as they harm the county by not rallying for defense in times of war, in my opinion.

One thing I disagree on is that everyone active in Galloway knows how important goldmine asttendance is. Only people who read the forum know and that is a minority of players. I have never received a letter in all my existance telling me people are needed in the mines. If I haven't I think it's fair to assume that people in other towns are the same. Maybe it wouldn't have gotten to the point of adding it as a duty had people been more educated in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   September 29th 2010, 23:20

True, non forum active people may not know this...thus the greater interaction between the mayors and the county council on our platform...have the mayors speak on it in their mayor announcements and town hall message Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 2nd 2010, 06:22

Lance wrote:
Quote :
v) Noble titles and official positions are protected by law in the Lyon Court. To use a title or a position without authorization is a crime. Titles and official positions must be recognized by the Kingdom or recognized by the County.
v) - Struck because it's not important. Everyone who has a noble title is going to know to go to the Lyon Court with the issue not CC.
No, I say keep that one. Think about it - if it's in the counties laws, that gives the Lyon Court an opportunity to use the Galloway criminal court to prosecute on it's behalf, IG jurisdiction.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 2nd 2010, 09:25

Flaithbheartach wrote:
Lance wrote:
Quote :
v) Noble titles and official positions are protected by law in the Lyon Court. To use a title or a position without authorization is a crime. Titles and official positions must be recognized by the Kingdom or recognized by the County.
v) - Struck because it's not important. Everyone who has a noble title is going to know to go to the Lyon Court with the issue not CC.
No, I say keep that one. Think about it - if it's in the counties laws, that gives the Lyon Court an opportunity to use the Galloway criminal court to prosecute on it's behalf, IG jurisdiction.

If you are proposing prosecuting someone for their forum RP habits, then I disagree. The forums are to be handled by the Censors.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 2nd 2010, 21:04

I'm not proposing anything, I just like keeping options open. The RL Lyon Court prosecutes people for false use of titles and bearing arms not granted - the Lord Lyon is a judge with criminal jurisdiction over all of Scotland, the Procurator Fiscal is actually just a public prosecutor attached to the Lyon Court, it's called the Lyon Court because it IS a court of law which is what makes it different to England's college of heraldry. If people can be prosecuted for breaking Lyon Court rules, which in RL is part of Scots Law, I see a future for Scotland - all the national institutions should of had some way to influence the IG, that's why so many people neglected them, because they couldn't actually do anything.

But that's just my opinion, personally I think that should be law in all three counties. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 3rd 2010, 00:06

As you say though, I would almost rather just have the Lyon Court make separate agreements, almost like a treaty with each county saying they will protect noble titles. I don't necessarily think that has to be part of the legal corpus of Galloway individually. Just my thoughts though . . .
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 3rd 2010, 05:43

Getting the treaty may be hard though - I imagine definetly feasible with Galloway, slightly less so with Ayr, but almost impossible with Glasgow. Though even Galloway may refuse, however with that law in the books the Lyon Court would already be a step ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: Book 2 - Common Laws   October 3rd 2010, 07:11

Perhaps, but only laws mentioned in the penal code are actually laws which can be used to prosecute in Court. I am completely against prosecuting people for their forum behaviour.
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